Euverlèk:Lies ven ko-alliesjer
Some of these people have pretty ridiculous names. :P The winners of elections 5, 9, 37 and 89 in particular, if I have the numbers correct. 77topaz (euverlègk) 19 mie 2013 08:00 (UTC) :Yeah, they come from the Mäöreser ethnicity; the names are in the Aad-Mäöres language. The Limburgish people actually invaded the island somewhere 'round 1200. The original inhabitants being treated somewhat like the Native Americans in the US. Nowadays, they form a minority of about 10% of the population. At the end of the 18th century, they still formed about 25% of the population, so they were sometimes elected as Governor :P Nowadays, that would be rare though. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 19 mie 2013 17:16 (UTC) ::Why are there so many accented letters (and different accents) in the names? :P Even Burenian doesn't seem to use them that much, there are some unaccented vowels in that language. :P How would they even be pronounced? 77topaz (euverlègk) 20 mie 2013 04:01 (UTC) :::http://landj.wikia.com/wiki/Aad-M%C3%A4%C3%B6res#K.C3.A8nm.C3.A8rker: The Old Mäöres language was highly inflecting and had six different tones (comparable to some Chinese dialects). Burenian only has two tones, comparable to Limburgish :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 20 mie 2013 08:19 (UTC) :::But, Burenian has more than two different accents, what are those for then? Also, it appears visual mode editing has suddenly become enabled here. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 20 mie 2013 19:33 (UTC) ::::In Ankélot'apca the accent â means that it is stressed (longer), but the tone is identical to à. ä means that it is a long á-vowel. ::::In Uxascarietoe (or whatever it's called :P), the situation is a bit vague :P a = æ (no tone specified), ä = æ:, á = á, à = à :P ::::@visual mode: hahaha, took some time è :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 21 mie 2013 07:57 (UTC) ::::@Accents: So, the Old Maores accents all indicate different tones? ::::@Visual mode: Yeah, it's quite strange. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 21 mie 2013 08:20 (UTC) ::::Also, it's Uxykascar, I think. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 21 mie 2013 08:21 (UTC) :::::@Accents: yes, they do :P In the New Mäöreser language, that's not per se the case though. :::::@Visual mode: Welcome to Mäöres :P :::::Hahaha, you're probably right :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 21 mie 2013 08:25 (UTC) :::::So, what are the differences between those tones, and the two languages? And, yeah, this is a strangely outdated wiki. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 21 mie 2013 08:50 (UTC) ::::::Well, the tones are different :P Some go up, some go down, others go up and down etc :P ::::::The New Mäöres language (Kólsztersj) is the newer version of the Old Mäöreser language which died out long ago and split up into several other dialects, such as Alpemäöres and Kólsztersj. ::::::I don't know how we keep it "out of date" though :P Wikia probably knows we're conservative basterds or summink :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 21 mie 2013 19:09 (UTC) ::::::So, the two Maoreser languages have different tones as well? ::::::Well, Wikia did decide to update now, it seems. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 22 mie 2013 02:58 (UTC) :::::::Yes, after two thousand years, generally, languages change a little bit :P :::::::Hahaha, maybe they just forgot about us and found us back again recently :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 22 mie 2013 06:08 (UTC) :::::::So, how do the tones differ? :::::::Yeah, you didn't exactly contact staff or anything, did you? :P/;) 77topaz (euverlègk) 22 mie 2013 08:25 (UTC) ::::::::Well, Kólsztersj only has two tones left :P The others've merged or disappeared because they changed: f.e. â used to be an independent tone, now it's pronounced as jà (taking another tone). ::::::::Not for this wiki :o --OuWTBsjrief-mich 22 mie 2013 14:38 (UTC) ::::::::Is the circumflex-a pronounced like either of those in Burenian, or different again? :P ::::::::You did for other wikis? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 23 mie 2013 08:26 (UTC) :::::::::Different. In Burenian it indicates a long rising tone, in Old Mäöres it indicates a rise-and-fall, in Kólsztersj (New Mäöres) it indicates a prenasalised falling tone. In Limburgish (to be complete :P) it is used to indicate the sound of British English "park", "father", or "bath". :::::::::-Yes :P -OuWTBsjrief-mich 23 mie 2013 09:08 (UTC) :::::::::Is each of those tones spelled differently again in the other languages? :P :::::::::Where would that be? 77topaz (euverlègk) 23 mie 2013 09:36 (UTC) ::::::::::Ehm... In generally they are. á is always rising, à is falling. But, Old Mäöres has way more tones than the other languages, and in Limburgish, the tones are not spelt. You have to read the tone from the context. ::::::::::Li.community and li.limburgs :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 23 mie 2013 10:10 (UTC) ::::::::::All of that seems a bit confusing. :P ::::::::::Where either of them ever edited by someone who was neither staff nor a wikinationer? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 23 mie 2013 10:23 (UTC) :::::::::::That's because you're not used to accents :P :::::::::::Yes :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 23 mie 2013 11:05 (UTC) :::::::::::I lived in the Netherlands, remember? :P Dutch does have accents. :::::::::::A spammer or something? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 24 mie 2013 07:53 (UTC) ::::::::::::Dutch has accents? :P Perhaps in a few loanwords and the -i(e)ë suffix yeah, but it's nothing compared to Limburgish :P We have real accents which alter the vowel quality: f.e. "sjaop" /ʃɒ:p/ vs. "äö" /ʃœ:p/ (sheep (sg.) - sheep (pl.)) or "kènne" /kenə/ vs. "kinne" /kɪnə/ (Dutch: kennen - kunnen), or "op" /ɒp:/ vs. "óp" /op:/ (option vs. upon). ::::::::::::Hahahaha, no. It was a contributing user, who still frequents the wiki :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 24 mie 2013 08:57 (UTC) ::::::::::::Dutch uses accents to distinguish between the two meanings of "een" sometimes ("a" and "one"), and for the plurals of words like "zee". :P ::::::::::::Would it be someone you know in real life? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 24 mie 2013 19:23 (UTC) :::::::::::::In reality, hardly though. It is commonly written as "een" and whether it's stressed is to be read from the context. "Ik heb een pakje sigaretten gekocht" vs. "Ik heb er een." And anyway, and both cases both pronunciations are possible. Yes, it is used for plurals, but even then I would not consider it the same like f.e. German, Swedish or Limburgish, as it only occurs on non-stressed positions (neuriën, zeeën) or loanwords (kopiëren). Whereas the "ieë" in Limburgish mostly indicates a radically different sound: "wier" /wi:r/, "wiejer" /wijər/, "wieër" /wjer/, /wiær/ or /wjɐr/ (depending on the dialect). :::::::::::::Yes, but it is someone whom I know via topic-related happenings :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 25 mie 2013 08:30 (UTC) :::::::::::::"Topic-related happenings"? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 26 mie 2013 05:30 (UTC) ::::::::::::::Yes, he is an expert in the topic the wiki's about :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 26 mie 2013 08:50 (UTC) ::::::::::::::The Limburgish language or something? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 27 mie 2013 09:03 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Yes :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 27 mie 2013 09:08 (UTC) :::::::::::::::You attend "language-related happenings"? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 28 mie 2013 05:15 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Sure, I'm Limburgophilic :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 28 mie 2013 07:57 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::What would a "language-related happening" even be? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 28 mie 2013 08:30 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::Seminars, dictations, celebrations, book presentations, you named it, in Limburg it exists :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 28 mie 2013 13:08 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::Didn't you say the language was dying out? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 29 mie 2013 09:18 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::Yes, in the cities and some regions of Limburg, it is dying out :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 29 mie 2013 09:34 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::But language-related happenings are able to be held? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 29 mie 2013 09:48 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::Yes, Limburg is an agrarian province è. You don't wanna know how many farmers we got :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 29 mie 2013 09:51 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::Meh... I currently live in a rural town myself. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 29 mie 2013 09:56 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::Then I don't need to tell you about it :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 29 mie 2013 10:01 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::Well, the culture's probably a bit different, considering the two places lie on almost opposite ends of the globe. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 29 mie 2013 10:08 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::Nah.. How many % of the population has Dutch origins? :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 29 mie 2013 10:13 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::Somewhere between 2%-5%, I think, though I'm not sure. 77topaz (euverlègk) 29 mie 2013 10:17 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::::That's more Dutchies than we got non-villagers in Montfort :P And what's the percentage in your village, you guess? :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 29 mie 2013 10:20 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::::I recall it being something like 3500-4000 on a census site, though I'm not sure about how many of the surrounding hamlets and farms that includes. 77topaz (euverlègk) 29 mie 2013 10:51 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::::You live on the land? :o --OuWTBsjrief-mich 29 mie 2013 10:56 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::::No, within the town. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 29 mie 2013 11:01 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::::::Ow :P Do they even have towns there? I thought there were only hamlets and big cities :o --OuWTBsjrief-mich 29 mie 2013 11:02 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::::::What do you consider a hamlet and what do you consider a big city? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 29 mie 2013 11:10 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::::::Hamlet: less than 500. Big city: more than 20.000 :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 29 mie 2013 11:13 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::::::Well, there are towns with populations around 5000 scattered around, so the statement would not be correct. :P :::::::::::::::::::::::::Also, can we reset the indent here too? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 29 mie 2013 11:17 (UTC) :::::::::::::It is not in-line with my expectations. Anyway, isn't everything new? Why would they even build places for 5000 inhabitants? :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 29 mie 2013 11:20 (UTC) :::::::::::::No, the islands were discovered by Abel Tasman in the seventeenth century (the Maori discovered them in the 1300s or thereabouts), and European settlement has been here since the early nineteenth. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 29 mie 2013 11:23 (UTC) ::::::::::::::Well, it all looks pretty "gerasterd" to me when looking at Google Maps :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 29 mie 2013 11:26 (UTC) ::::::::::::::Maybe that's due to various aerial surveys having been taken with different cameras and weather? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 29 mie 2013 11:28 (UTC) :::::::::::::::I'm talking bout the street patterns. Everything's square :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 29 mie 2013 11:31 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Are you sure you're looking at New Zealand, not the United States (which, by the way, is even older)? :P What city are you even looking at? 77topaz (euverlègk) 29 mie 2013 19:34 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::Yes :P Thames, Tauranga (okay, suburbs are more Dutch-like :P), Cambridge, Palmerston North (is there even a South? :P), Wellington, Rangiora, Oxford, Christchurch, Ashburton, Timaru, Waimate, Oamaru, Dunedin, Mosgiel, Invercargill, Hokitika, Greymouth, Westport, Nelsen (with the exception of the area built on a hill of course :P). I notice two things: especially South New Zealand has boring street patterns, and a lot of town names are unpronounceable :P ::::::::::::::::And if I named your town name, don't take it personal, I'm just trying to offend your country's street patterns :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 30 mie 2013 08:26 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::There's no "Palmerston South", but there is a "Palmerston". Boring street patterns are probably due to British influence, but it's not nearly as bad as some US cities. :P The town names you find unpronouncable are probably those originating from the Maori language. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 30 mie 2013 10:05 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Waeeee, you guys gotta know the compass points :P :::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Alright, gotta give you that, but if you compare it to a newly-built Dutch town like Houten or Almere, it's still very straight :P :::::::::::::::::@Town names: No, they are relatively pronounceable, except Oamaru and stuff. I was more talking bout Mosgiel and Invercargill :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 30 mie 2013 13:43 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Palmerston North is located north of Palmerston. :P :::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Well, the types of buildings are different too. There's few rijtjeshuizen, with most houses being free-standing. You only find flat-blocks in the big cities as well. :P :::::::::::::::::@Town names: I think those are British. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 30 mie 2013 19:42 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Then you tell me where it lies on the map, cause the only Palmerston in New Zealand that I can find is near Dunedin :P ::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Well, that's the same as in Limburg :P ::::::::::::::::::@Town names: Or somekind of Irish/Gaelic? --OuWTBsjrief-mich 31 mie 2013 07:43 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Dunedin is south of Palmerston North. :P ::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: I recall Maastricht having rijtjeshuizen. :P ::::::::::::::::::@Town names: Well yeah, those are kind of British too. It could be; but I think they might actually be Scottish. 77topaz (euverlègk) 31 mie 2013 09:57 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: True, but it's like naming London in English "East London" and keep the normal name "London" reserved for the city in Ontario :P :::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Maastricht is a city though, actually our biggest :P :::::::::::::::::::@Town names: Gaelic = Scottish :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 31 mie 2013 12:15 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: But, British London is a lot older than Ontario London. :P :::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Yeah, but the big cities here, at least in the North Island, don't have rijtjeshuizen either. 77topaz (euverlègk) 31 mie 2013 19:53 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: And the North one isn't way younger than the South one (1866 North, 1862 South) :P ::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: That's cause you guys have way too much ground :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 1 apr 2013 08:26 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: See, the situations are different. :P ::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Is that your war-like mentality showing again? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 1 apr 2013 09:34 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: They should've named "Palmerston" "South Palmerston" instead :P Or the Dutch way "Palmerston on Southern Island" :P :::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: No, that's a fact :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 1 apr 2013 10:07 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: I don't think there are any four-word place names, unless you count Maori places names like Taumatawhakahangikoauau... (I don't remember the whole thing by head, but it has a Wikipedia article). :P :::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: No, it's an opinion. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 1 apr 2013 10:28 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Well, they should've create one :P ::::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Why would it be an option? :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 2 apr 2013 03:12 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Why, though? :P ::::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: I said opinion, not option. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 2 apr 2013 05:10 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: For diversity reasons :P :::::::::::::::::::::::@Pattern: Ow :P It's a factual opinion :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 2 apr 2013 15:57 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Didn't you read what I wrote about the long Maori place names? :P :::::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: That's a bit of an oxymoron, Oos. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 3 apr 2013 06:50 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Well, what's the difference between English and Maori anyway? :P ::::::::::::::::::::::::@Pattern: True, and it's the truth :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 3 apr 2013 07:13 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: A lot. :P ::::::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: ::::::::::::::::::::::::No, it's an opinion, Oos. Of one, far-away person. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 3 apr 2013 19:08 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: How do you know if you don't speak Maori? :o :::::::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: It has nothing to do with war. You guys just don't know what to do with all the grounds, so you make gardens of it :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 4 apr 2013 03:15 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: I don't speak it fluently, but I do know some words and the general sound of the language. :P :::::::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: :::::::::::::::::::::::::If you're referring to large lawns, I think that practice descends from the British. Also, the indent should be reset. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 4 apr 2013 09:29 (UTC) :::::::::@Palmerston: Well, it's probably helpful that you're Dutch :P :::::::::@Patterns: No, I'm talking bout the fact that you guys have too much ground :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 5 apr 2013 08:16 (UTC) :::::::::@Palmerston: Maori doesn't exactly resemble Dutch either, except the pronunciations of the vowels. :P :::::::::@Patterns: Why did you bring up gardens, then? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 5 apr 2013 08:29 (UTC) ::::::::::@Palmerston: that's what I meant :P ::::::::::@Patterns: cuz that's the way you guys fill in the grounds you don't need :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 5 apr 2013 08:43 (UTC) ::::::::::@Palmerston: With regards to Dutch being helpful, you mean? ::::::::::@Patterns: There's a lot of forest in this country as well. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 5 apr 2013 08:55 (UTC) :::::::::::@Palmerston: Yes :P :::::::::::@Patterns: Yeah, they're gonna turn that into gardens aswell :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 5 apr 2013 09:04 (UTC) :::::::::::@Palmerston: Well, the rest of the language is quite different. :P :::::::::::@Patterns: No, Oos. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 5 apr 2013 10:02 (UTC) ::::::::::::@Palmerston: Relatively different :P ::::::::::::@Patterns: You know nothing bout NZ :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 6 apr 2013 09:23 (UTC) ::::::::::::@Palmerston: Oos, do you really expect two languages from other sides of the world to have similarities? :P ::::::::::::@Patterns: Oos, you live on the other side of the world. :P Ever heard of "national parks"? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 6 apr 2013 09:38 (UTC) :::::::::::::@Palmerston: Yes, I do :P :::::::::::::@Patterns: Yes, but not all your forests are NP :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 6 apr 2013 11:12 (UTC) :::::::::::::@Palmerston: Oos, that's not sensible. :P The closest resemblance to any European language is a few loanwords from English for concepts the Maori did not have. :P :::::::::::::@Patterns: The NPs are pretty big, though. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 6 apr 2013 19:54 (UTC) ::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Well, "o" means "of", that would be the same as in Oshenna :P And: It's an Austronesian language, links have been suggested with Japanese (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Classification_of_the_Japanese_language#Other), a language some think to be related to Altaic, which might be related to Indo-European :P ::::::::::::::@Patterns: The gardens are pretty big too :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 7 apr 2013 09:19 (UTC) ::::::::::::::@Palmerston: I don't think Oshenna counts, it's a conlang. :P Also, language divergence occurs. :P ::::::::::::::@Patterns: Exactly what gardens are you referring to? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 8 apr 2013 07:24 (UTC) :::::::::::::::@Palmerston: It's not a conlang, it's in my heart :'( Indeed, but still, it could be related :P :::::::::::::::@Patterns: Does your home have a garden? If so, that's what I'm referring to :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 8 apr 2013 16:24 (UTC) :::::::::::::::@Palmerston: The Maori's were completely isolated for 400 years at least, so language divergence is likely to occur. :P :::::::::::::::@Patterns: Oh, you're referring to home gardens. Our garden is relatively big, but, our neighbourhood is not very densely populated. 77topaz (euverlègk) 8 apr 2013 20:26 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Linguistically, 400 years isn't a long time :P ::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Indeed, that's why I say you turn everything into gardens :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 9 apr 2013 03:11 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Yeah, but Polynesian cultures are quite isolated to begin with. :P ::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Just the areas around houses in suburbia. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 9 apr 2013 09:17 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: So is Iceland and Montfort :P :::::::::::::::::@Patterns: But they are too large :o --OuWTBsjrief-mich 9 apr 2013 12:29 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Iceland is relatively close to Europe, though it is a bit isolated, and Montfort lies on the mainland of Europe. :P :::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Many suburbs are pretty dense. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 10 apr 2013 08:32 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Well, Montfort is still isolated though :P ::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: But they still have gardens è :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 10 apr 2013 09:08 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Geographically speaking, not very much, though. :P ::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Not much bigger than those in the Netherlands. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 12 apr 2013 10:38 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: The people like to isolate themselves though :P :::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Well, but as everybody has a garden... :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 13 apr 2013 08:21 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: That sounds... odd. :P :::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Not in urban areas. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 15 apr 2013 07:54 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: That sounds... Montfortian :P ::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Well, apart from the urban areas.. :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 17 apr 2013 08:29 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Odd = Montfortian? :P ::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: There are achtertuinen in the Netherlands too. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 21 apr 2013 01:36 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Hahaha, yeah, kind of :P :::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: That's true, but you guys have too many of them :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 21 apr 2013 06:50 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Surely not everything in Montfort is odd? :P :::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: I think you're exaggerating. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 21 apr 2013 08:55 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Well, a lot is though :P ::::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: I think you don't know what y'r talkin bout :o --OuWTBsjrief-mich 21 apr 2013 09:16 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: The same thing can be said about many settlements, though. :P ::::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Ik denk dat je (daarmee) aan het overdrijven bent. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 27 apr 2013 11:28 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Well, Montfort is specifically odd :P :::::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: What do you know bout NZ? You weren't even born there :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 27 apr 2013 14:59 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: "Specifically odd"? :P :::::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Yeah, but I live there. :o/:P 77topaz (euverlègk) 3 mei 2013 01:19 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Go visit it and you'll know what I mean :P ::::::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: That's a very weak argument :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 3 mei 2013 05:11 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Why exactly would I want to visit Montfort? :P ::::::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: I've been here for several years. You can't exactly say you know more about NZ than me. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 3 mei 2013 05:49 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: To see the oddity :P :::::::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Pretty sure there are lots of people who know more about NZ than you do :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 3 mei 2013 14:42 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Is there anything else worth seeing? :P :::::::::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Perhaps, but you're not one of them. :P :::::::::::::::::::::::::Also, we should probably reset the indent. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 5 mei 2013 07:26 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::::::::::I'll set us a new header, way down the page :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 5 mei 2013 08:26 (UTC) Sorry to interrupt, but have any of you been to Waterloo? HORTON11: • 1 apr 2013 18:38 (UTC) I haven't, why do you ask? 77topaz (euverlègk) 1 apr 2013 19:08 (UTC) : I might be moving there in the summer. HORTON11: • 1 apr 2013 19:18 (UTC) ::Never been there :P :::All I know is they have the famous battle site. HORTON11: • 2 apr 2013 18:27 (UTC) ::::And the French stole the town from the Flemish :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 3 apr 2013 07:13 (UTC) ::::::Well on wikipedia it say the name comes from the Dutch. HORTON11: • 3 apr 2013 12:52 (UTC) :::::::Yes, the name is Dutch/Flemish (basically the same), but nowadays most inhabitants speak French. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 3 apr 2013 16:56 (UTC) ::::::::Hopefully we don't move there, cause there really isn't much there. HORTON11: • 3 apr 2013 17:42 (UTC) :::::::::You should stay in Limburg, otherwise, let me have a conversation with your parents :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 4 apr 2013 03:15 (UTC) ::::::::::We can't. My dad has this EU thing so we have to live close to Brussels (or in Brussels). I would like to live near the Grand place, but sadly its too expensive. HORTON11: • 4 apr 2013 15:29 (UTC) :::::::::::Tongeren is close enough :P In Limburg, you could still go to Tienen and if you want to stay in Dutch area, there's Leuven, which is a way better city than Waterloo :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 5 apr 2013 08:15 (UTC) ::::::::::::The morning drive isn't exactly short from Tongeren to Brussels. I do hope it's not Waterloo, and we might stay in one of the neighborhoods in Brussels. HORTON11: • 5 apr 2013 14:38 (UTC) :::::::::::::For your welfare, I hope the same :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 6 apr 2013 09:23 (UTC) I fear for you guys' mental health. All those @ signs, :P smileys and inconsistent colon usage can't be good for you. --Semyon 22 apr 2013 16:20 (UTC) :That's the Mäöreser way of having a discussion :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 24 apr 2013 09:26 (UTC) Way down the page @Palmerston: Is there anything else worth seeing? :P @Patterns: Perhaps, but you're not one of them. :P --Teupazz 5 mei 2013 08:26 (UTC) :@Palmerston: the castle :o :@Patterns: Never be so sure :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 5 mei 2013 08:26 (UTC) :@Palmerston: Is it an interesting castle? :P :@Patterns: Well, have you ever been anywhere outside the Benelux, except perhaps Germany? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 5 mei 2013 20:10 (UTC) ::@Palmerston: It's the biggest mediaevel castle in the Netherlands (for what it's worth :P) https://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kasteel_Montfort ::@Patterns: Yes, Limburg, France, Italy, Sweden, Germany, Denmark, Slovakia, Austria, and perhaps a country I forgot :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 6 mei 2013 06:31 (UTC) ::@Palmerston: Nowhere on that page does it actually say it is the biggest castle in the Netherlands, at least not anywhere visibly, and being the largest castle in a country would be considered notable enough for the lead section. :P ::@Patterns: Limburg, whether you consider it sovereign or not, lies geographically within the Benelux. :P Well, none of them are anywhere near New Zealand. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 7 mei 2013 05:39 (UTC) :::@Palmerston: https://li.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kestie%C3%ABl_Mofert#Gegaeves: "De aafmaetinge vannen Tômp zeen 50 bie 50 maeter. ’t Oppervlak mitj den 2500 veerkantje maeter. Daomit is ’t kestieël den ouch ’t grótste van Nederlandj. Es veurbeeldj haet ’t Muiderslot meh ei oppervlak van 1120 veerkantje maeter. Boete ’t oppervlak is ’t onnag ein van de meis geavanceerdje kestieële." Better? :P :::@Patterns: No, if you'd consider it sovereign, it doesn't: "BElgium, NEderland, LUXemburg". Geographically, it would still lie in the Low Countries though. Don't mix up Low Countries with Benelux :P Still, I'm more familiar with NZ than you are :o --OuWTBsjrief-mich 7 mei 2013 16:36 (UTC) :::@Palmerston: Did you write that particular piece of information yourself? :o/:P :::@Patterns: The term "Low Countries" could also be used to refer to just the Netherlands, though, since it is a rough literal translation of the name. :P I don't think your statement about NZ is true; it's basically impossible what you said, in fact. I could ask you some sort of question in order to prove it, but you could just Google it and I wouldn't know. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 8 mei 2013 07:32 (UTC) ::::@Palmerston: As a matter of fact, I did not :o I speak a different variety of Montfortian :P ::::@Patterns: True, but Benelux 100% don't include sovereign Limburg :P @NZ: Tsss :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 8 mei 2013 11:17 (UTC) ::::@Palmerston: Montfortian has several varieties ITSELF?!(?) :P/:o/:| ::::@Patterns: I said that the Benelux includes "sovereign Limburg" geographically speaking. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 9 mei 2013 05:35 (UTC) :::::@Palmerston: Well, (former) mediaevel cities in Limburg often have a "binnen de poort" dialect and a "buiten de poort" dialect. This is especially well preserved in cities that became rural, such as Thorn, Montfort, Valkenburg, etc. That article is written in the "binnen de poort" dialect. I speak the Aan de Berg dialect, which is a rural dialect. And to make matters even more difficult, the Mäöres wiki is written in the Etsberg dialect :P :::::@Patterns: No, it does not :P It only includes "non-sovereign Limburg" :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 9 mei 2013 08:12 (UTC) :::::@Palmerston: I recall you saying Maores was written in High General Limburgish or something with a name like that. How many speakers do those sub-dialects have each? :P :::::@Patterns: From a geographical point of view, the Limburg region is largely contained within and surrounded by the Benelux countries. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 9 mei 2013 08:50 (UTC) ::::::@Palmerston: Yes, Hoeaglèmbörgsj is mainly based on Etsbergish :P About 1,500 for the inner city and 2000+ for the outer city (but the outer city dialect is actually divided up in even more dialects :P), but it depends on your definition. There could be as many as 5,000 outer city speakers if you include dialects of other nearby hamlets :P ::::::@Patterns: Not sure if I agree with you :P See this professional map. Limburg has been "lined up" with the paint pencil :P It goes slightly deeper into Germany than indicated on this map (it excludes Brüggen f.e.) It mainly borders Germany :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 9 mei 2013 09:36 (UTC) NOTE: For some reason the "Palmerston" and "Patterns" prefixes were switched here. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 16 mei 2013 04:18 (UTC) ::::::@Patterns: Etsberigish is a relatively large dialect? And, would you agree that Limburg would be a prime example for a language continuum (a bit like Burenia)? :P ::::::@Palmerston: It fits into the "curve" formed by the Netherlands and Belgium, though, and you yourself called it a "low country". Plus, I wouldn't really call that a professional map. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 9 mei 2013 09:57 (UTC) :::::::@Patterns: No, it only has 250 speakers :P But it's very "neutral" and the first people who wrote Limburgish since the 12th century came from there, so, probably that's way it's the near-standard dialect :P Yes, Limburgish is the perfect example for a dialect continuum :P :::::::@Palmerston: It don't if you are to include the German-administrated areas :P @map: Tsss :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 9 mei 2013 10:26 (UTC) :::::::@Patterns: High General Limburgish is a common dialect, but it is based on a tiny dialect? :P And, what do you mean by "neutral"? :::::::@Palmerston: Without the Limburg regions, though, you get a sort of "dent" in the Benelux countries. :P @Map: Well, it was made in MS Paint, wasn't it? :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 10 mei 2013 05:27 (UTC) ::::::::@Patterns: Yes :P Well, it isn't really an extreme variety in the dialect continuum :P ::::::::@Palmerston: So? Czechia is also a dent into Germany, but I guess you wouldn't consider the Western part of Czechia part of Germany. For that matter, all of Portugal could be consider a "dent" of Spain :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 10 mei 2013 07:15 (UTC) ::::::::@Patterns: There's extreme varieties even within the Limburgish dialect continuum? :P ::::::::@Palmerston: There is a name for the region containing both Spain and Portugal: Iberia. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 10 mei 2013 10:36 (UTC) :::::::::@Patterns: Yeah, some are Dutch-like others are German-like :P :::::::::@Palmerston: But still, Portugal is a dent of Spain :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 10 mei 2013 11:52 (UTC) :::::::::@Patterns: Are those dialects of the Limburgish language, or the dialect, or both? :P :::::::::@Palmerston: Spain with dent unfilled = Spain. Spain with dent filled = Iberia. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 10 mei 2013 22:01 (UTC) ::::::::::@Patterns: Language :P The dialect is largely the same per Limburgish region :P ::::::::::@Palmerston: Benelux with dent unfilled = Benelux. Benelux with dent filled = Low Countries or Limbenelux :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 11 mei 2013 08:38 (UTC) ::::::::::@Patterns: The lingual situation in Limburg seems rather complicated. :P ::::::::::@Palmerston: "Benelux" and "Low Countries" are used synonymously quite often, though. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 11 mei 2013 12:15 (UTC) :::::::::::@Patterns: It is :P It's Europe, everything's old and complicated :P :::::::::::@Palmerston: Because they are a practical synonym right now, but not with Sovereign Limburg :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 11 mei 2013 13:10 (UTC) :::::::::::@Patterns: Isn't that overgeneralising a bit? :P :::::::::::@Palmerston: "Sovereign Limburg" is a situation that may never occur, so, for now, it's likely more logical to use them as synonyms. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 11 mei 2013 23:51 (UTC) ::::::::::::@Patterns: Not really :P ::::::::::::@Palmerston: We were talking bout sovereign Limburg though, not bout the current situation :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 12 mei 2013 07:46 (UTC) ::::::::::::@Patterns: New things do occur. :P ::::::::::::@Palmerston: In such a situation, everything is hypothetical, though. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 13 mei 2013 07:56 (UTC) :::::::::::::@Patterns: Yeah, they do. But over all, the oldness remains :P :::::::::::::@Palmerston: Most is, but not that Limburg won't be part of something with the name Benelux :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 15 mei 2013 08:45 (UTC) :::::::::::::@Patterns: What exactly do you define "oldness" as? :P :::::::::::::@Palmerston: It currently is. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 15 mei 2013 20:37 (UTC) ::::::::::::::@Patterns: The state of being or looking old or dated :P ::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Yes, but we were talking bout sovereign Limburg è :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 16 mei 2013 03:09 (UTC) ::::::::::::::@Patterns: What do buildings have to do with linguistics? :P ::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Which is, as I'm pretty sure I've said before, a hypothetical situation. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 16 mei 2013 04:16 (UTC) :::::::::::::::@Patterns: They are cultural factors as well :o :::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Yes, but in that situation, it's not part of the Benelux :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 17 mei 2013 13:59 (UTC) :::::::::::::::@Patterns: Language and culture are not the same thing. :P :::::::::::::::@Palmerston: The name "Limburg" may not fit in the current abbreviation, but that's not all there is to the situation. :P Thing is, in a situation of such a hypothetical nature, one can't expect things to be predictable too often. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 18 mei 2013 10:20 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::@Patterns: True, but they are closely tied together though :P ::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: True, but I'm pretty sure that if Limburg gets independent, they would want as little influence as possible from countries like the Netherlands and Belgium (their former "oppressors", yes this is Donia-style talking :P), so they would not commit to a "union" as the Benelux. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 18 mei 2013 14:37 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Buildings don't directly relate to language. :P ::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: That's all very much hypothetical, though. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 18 mei 2013 23:48 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::@Patterns: But indirectly they do :P :::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: That's true :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 19 mei 2013 07:48 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Well, very indirectly. :P :::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: By which I mean that such a situation would be very hard to predict. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 19 mei 2013 08:01 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: That's not entirely true :P ::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: In general yes, in this case it'll be very easy to predict it though, as Benelux is an official union between three countries. Adding another country, will have the name to be altered. --OuWTBsjrief-mich 19 mei 2013 10:14 (UTC) ::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: How do you mean? :P ::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: A Benelux and a Limbenelux are fundamentally the same, though. :P 77topaz (euverlègk) 26 mei 2013 04:55 (UTC) :::::::::::::::::::@Patterns: Well, culture and language are interwoven. Each culture has its own language(s). :::::::::::::::::::@Palmerston: Now they are, but not if Limburg becomes independent :P --OuWTBsjrief-mich 26 mei 2013 09:59 (UTC)